The Windows 7 Thread

[Cryo Cube]

Anyone tried the beta?
I feel the urge to install it. My brain though, tells me that its a waste of time to install a beta that will run out anyway

[rob]

Honestly, Windows 7 had better be the be-all, end-all of Windows releases. If it isn't, Microsoft is in big, big trouble.

I've though for a while that if Windows 7 isn't a massive hit that everyone loves, Microsoft should consider spinning the Windows division off into its own company, because the worm will finally be in the apple for Windows. I mean, where can it possibly grow from where it is already? It's on handhelds, mobile phones, netbooks, notebooks, desktops, small servers and large servers. It's in every market segment it can possibly enter, so there's no place to grow. Also, Apple is now at 10% of the market, chipping slowly away at the Microsoft monopoly, and I suppose Linux could make some inroads if the Linux community ever stops trying to eat itself.

[roy]

I think the PR that Windows 7 will get (and is already getting, even in beta) will be the big factor. A pretty significant percentage of people who say Vista is terrible are people who <i>haven't even tried it.</i> As long as you've got fairly decent hardware — stuff that's pretty much bargain-basement level these days — Vista's just fine. 7 is a big improvement on Vista, plus it benefits from all the initial Vista issues already being fixed. And for that reason, everyone that's reporting on it has been impressed. That, in turn, will lead to the general public believing what they've heard and repeating it like parrots. The same phenomenon that has doomed Vista. Actually Ars Technica had a piece on that, saying pretty much the same thing I've thought, ever since I started using Vista and realized it didn't suck.

Even Mark Shuttleworth could only say nice things about it and call it a great product. Between getting kudos from the "competition" and also getting good reports all around, the PR will be enough to turn Windows 7 into that "be-all, end all" product it needs to be. And 90% of the people who use it will not know why it is, but they'll know everyone else thinks so, and that means it's true...

[Chester]

the worm will finally be in the Apple for Windows.

There. Fixed that for you.

[rob]

^^ Pun not intended.

No, I don't think Vista sucks; however, I do think that Vista has few really compelling reasons to upgrade (edit: OK, security is a pretty compelling reason).

To me, the problem is that Microsoft isn't providing things users really want and need. Why is it that we've gotten to this point and (I think I've mentioned this before) there still isn't a simple backup solution built right into Windows? Why can't you print any document straight to PDF? Why can't you have multiple virtual desktops? Why is it that all the cool things that are being added to operating systems are happening in the Mac world? (To be fair, all three of those features have been in Linux for some time, though they're not necessarily as easy to use.)

When is Microsoft going to say, "Let's give people the stuff they really need," and get serious about it, instead of just coming up with a fancy new look and a few updates?

[roy]

Those are all great points. My best guess is they want the new features they add to be something different from what other operating systems have. Almost like they hear people say, "You're just copying Apple," and in response they try to go in a direction Apple hasn't gone yet with some new feature or another. What they're not taking into account is that <i>some</i> of the things Apple has done are what people actually <i>want</i> them to copy. I guess they're damned if they do and damned if they don't — they're either gonna face the "Why are you just copying Apple" criticism or the "Why can't you do what Apple did" criticism.

[xeper]

I've been fairly vocal in my dislike of Vista, but I think Win7 fixes a TON of its problems. I'm running it right now and see only a few minor issues [the new taskbar is a bit obnoxious, how it groups windows and doesn't really differentiate between applications and files, etc] and the UAC/security stuff is less obtrusive, but still visibly present.

All in all, stay with XP unless you really like playing with new OSes. When the final comes out, I really don't see a ton of reasons to stay with XP.

Oh, and get the 64-bit version if you can run it. The only app that doesn't seem to like it so far is Photoshop CS4 64-bit. 32-bit PSCS4 runs just fine, but won't address more than 3.2GB or RAM. There's no reason on Earth not to have 4+ GB of RAM at this point in time, it's just too fucking cheap. I've got 4GB in right now and I'll be shoving a total of 8GB into my new PC in Feb. DDR2 800 chips are cheap as hell right now.

[Cryo Cube]

There are different version of CS4? I thought there was only one which can do both 64 and 32bit

[rob]

Those are all great points. My best guess is they want the new features they add to be something different from what other operating systems have. Almost like they hear people say, "You're just copying Apple," and in response they try to go in a direction Apple hasn't gone yet with some new feature or another. What they're not taking into account is that <i>some</i> of the things Apple has done are what people actually <i>want</i> them to copy. I guess they're damned if they do and damned if they don't — they're either gonna face the "Why are you just copying Apple" criticism or the "Why can't you do what Apple did" criticism.

I suppose you're right, but if Microsoft makes decisions based on what Apple does and worries that people will think they're just copying Apple, then that is one hell of an inferiority complex they've got.

[xeper]

CS4 installs two apps for Photoshop, a 64-bit and a 32-bit. You can choose which to run. 64-bit doesn't seem to like Win7 just yet.

[Chester]

There's no reason on Earth not to have 4+ GB of RAM at this point in time

Sadly there is - my current mobo (ASUS A7A-266). Yeah, it's years out of date, but runs XP just fine, so I'm not upgrading until I can afford to or need to. My processor is an ageing AMD XP 2000+ (runs at 1.7GHz) which isn't even Dual Core but like I say it works fine.

I did look at upgrading to an Intel Q6600 (Quad Core) but I'd have to replace everything, bar the CD drives.

My point is that I can accept up to 2Gb of RAM DDR, or 3Gb SDR I think, no thanks! But when I tried to upgrade it recently the memory has moved on so much that it'll only take 1.5Gb due to some bug or something. (Yes, even after I have applied the latest BIOS updates.) So I can't even get 2Gb! But I manage. I can edit my photos and surf the net quite easily without any sign of crawling to a halt, so why upgrade? And Vista simply isn't hot enough to warrant a whole new machine when XP works so well still.

Hopefully Windows 7 will be out by the time I upgrade.

[Quik]

Sadly it doesn't look like they got the idea that <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-7-basic-business-ultimate,6910.html">multiple versions</a> at different price points sucks.

[Chester]

Aye, heard about that today. Major suck.

[aaron]

I just cannot get over the cheap ass looking glass interface.

Vista/7 visually is horrid.

[xeper]

It's an improvement over the claymation look of XP, but not by much.

[lou]

classic ftw

[Chester]

I hear you can't change to the classic look in 7. Haha to all the IT admins who always turn that on when creating their drive images for campuses and businesses. MS will finally own you!

[soapawake]

Honestly, Windows 7 had better be the be-all, end-all of Windows releases. If it isn't, Microsoft is in big, big trouble.

I wish.

Logic would tell us that Microsoft must have at least learned <i>something</i> after the Vista backlash. The unfortunate truth is that they still own the install base by a huge margin, and the vast majority of computer owners not only don't care about alternatives, but are completely oblivious to them. Why change a golden formula? Most of their consumers aren't even aware there's a problem. They just think computers work that way.

Sorta the same way it took them so long to conform IE to standard compliance (the next IE is supposed to be standard compliant, anyway). They own the install base, forcing developers to conform to their standards, thus keeping the browser market cornered.

Thank god for Ubuntu, since I'm too broke for Mac.

[xeper]

I hear you can't change to the classic look in 7. Haha to all the IT admins who always turn that on when creating their drive images for campuses and businesses. MS will finally own you!

You can, it's in the "ease of access" themes section.

[rob]

the next IE is supposed to be standard compliant, anyway

I'll believe it when I see it. Isn't this what they said about IE6 and IE7, and they still can't handle 24-bit PNGs with variable transparency?

[xeper]

GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! IE 8 is every bit as big a pile of shit as 6 and 7. I don't see them making any sweeping changes by June/July.

[jmu]

Microsoft included a print to PDF option in Office 2007, and subsequently were sued by Adobe. I think. Well I know they had to remove it for a while and then put it back in. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing occurred when considering integrating better backup software. Of course Microsoft also considers system restore and VSS to be "back up" (I think something like acronis' universal restore would be better). Ntbackup on servers is great though.

My opinion of Windows 7 is that its really just a big service pack for Vista. They're releasing it as a new product I think because so much negativity is attached to Vista. So if this was released as Vista R2 or something people would baulk at it.

As far as Vista goes, I still stand by what I've always said. It came out buggy as hell, before SP1 simple stuff like file copying was slow as shit. Hardware support was hard to come by and UAC was annoying as hell. Some of that was MS' fault, a lot of it was the fault of programmers working for both software and hardware companies not getting ready for Vista. Some still aren't. And even if their software is technically "compatible" it doesn't nessisarily run well, when you get printer drivers from HP that are so bloated they need a DVD to hold them you can see stuff isn't going to run well. And the OEMs and software companies keep pushing this shit like its normal. Then when computers don't run well because they're loaded down with trialware and drivers that warn you when you're not using OFFICIAL SUPPORTED HP INK CARTRIDGES they just join in the "Vista Sucks, Micro$oft Sucks" circle jerk.

[Chester]

[..]You can, it's in the "ease of access" themes section.

Damn.

[soapawake]

[..]
I'll believe it when I see it. Isn't this what they said about IE6 and IE7, and they still can't handle 24-bit PNGs with variable transparency?

GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! IE 8 is every bit as big a pile of shit as 6 and 7. I don't see them making any sweeping changes by June/July.

I misspoke. What Microsoft said last summer was that they're going to slowly start conforming IE to standard compliance. Wont happen with one release. It's also been a long time since any followup to those claims.

[lack0Fdesign]

I prefer Win7 to Vista/XP. That being said, its mostly for my love of the Chess game.

[xeper]

Playing Windows chess and poker on a big HDTV using a remote is pretty cool.

[roy]

I just installed the Win 7 RC on my main computer. I've never made a non-release version of any OS my primary OS before, but I'm happy with it. This totally makes up for the debacle that Vista was (at launch, not after SP1). There's a noticeable speed improvement, even over XP SP3, which I was using up to this point.

The new taskbar and Aero peek or whatever it's called are just as awesome as I'd hoped they'd be. And snapping windows to half/full screen by dragging them to the top or side edges really comes in handy. I'm gonna be using that when I'm working on a website, because I like to code my html and css in 2 separate windows.

Even the included wallpapers and themes are kinda cool! And I'm not an MS fanboy or anything...I hated Vista as much as anyone when it first came out. I even wiped Vista from my Dell laptop and installed OS X. But Win 7 is sexy. Not because of eye candy, but because being fast, stable and functional = OS sexiness.

[Doodie]

Mmm, that sounds nice. Perhaps I'll be upgrading from XP in the life of this computer after all...

[lack0Fdesign]

I have only used it on a 64 bit processor and it flew has anyone tried it on a 32 bit system?

[roy]

I'm using the 32 bit version and it flies as well.